bout de papier, Vol. 17, No. 2 (2000) — Summer 2000 // Été 2000, pp. 5–7

Wednesday, May 17, 2000
Le mercredi 17 mai 2000

The Honourable Lloyd Axworthy (Minister of Foreign Affairs): I welcome the opportunity to meet with members and to talk about how we’re trying to adapt the resources of the department to our policy priority.

I think I also wanted to point to the concern that has been expressed publicly and directly to me through a series of meetings about the question of the foreign service, both in terms of its pay scale as well as its morale problems. I think it is a serious issue. I am pleased to report that it has now gone into conciliation. I think there have been a number of discussions at senior level of management with the Treasury Board, with PAFSO representing the foreign service officers.

I think the conciliation process, when it’s been agreed to in all, should provide the basis for a solution. I think there were certain elements that went into that that will give us, I hope, the formula we can resolve this with, because there’s no question that it needs to be resolved, and I’m certainly sympathetic to the concerns expressed by foreign service officers. They do an incredible job abroad. They really are under a lot of stress and strain, and things are not getting easier overseas. There are an awful lot more threats, risks, and problems they face. I think they deserve to be properly remunerated, and I trust the conciliation process will result in that.

Mme Francine Lalonde (Mercier, BQ): Vous avez dit dans votre exposé d’ouverture qu’en ce qui concerne les employés des Affaires étrangères à l’étranger, on a accepté la conciliation. On a reçu une lettre datée le 15 mai à cet effet même si ce n’était pas encore en vigueur.

Malgré vos propos, j’aimerais que vous insistiez parce que nous comprenons, quand nous allons dans les ambassades à l’étranger et à l’ONU, à quel point les positions adoptées par le Parlement ou par le gouvernement ne pourraient jamais être mises de l’avant si ce n’était du travail extraordinaire accompli par des gens qualifiés et dévoués.

Or, les inquiétudes de ce personnel sont grandes. Une de ces inquiétudes porte sur le fait qu’on a de la difficulté à faire du recrutement et que, du côté du ministère, on a peut-être tendance à vouloir remplacer des employés permanents par du personnel occasionnel, ce qui entraînerait la perte de compétences et un manque de suivi des dossiers. Il me semble que ces gens ont besoin de savoir qu’ils vont être traités au moins sur le même pied que les techniciens et les professionnels qui sont ici et qu’on ne cherchera pas à économiser en remplaçant des employés permanents par des employés occasionnels.

Mr. Lloyd Axworthy: First, Mr. Chairman, I agree with Mrs. Lalonde on the extraordinary work done by our officials abroad. It is remarkable. I have received some representations just as you did and I have had several meetings with members of the group. As I said already, I hope that the conciliation process will lead to an agreement between the civil servants and Treasury Board.

Let me say that the problem really isn’t in the recruitment. I think we still receive applications from an incredible number of very able young-not just young-men and women across this country. We usually have a ratio of 5:1 or 7:1. It’s a very substantial sort of recruitment, and we get really wonderful people. The problem is the retention, and that goes back to decisions that were made quite a while ago, back in the late 1980s, I would guess, where the decision was made to have basically two categories, FS-1s and FS-2s, which didn’t allow for proper gradations. And this is my opinion, in part. So when an experienced officer hits the top rung of FS-2 and doesn’t get into to EX branch, they’re sort of held there. I think that’s where the disparity has begun to occur.

As you know, the government has been working now for a couple of years on a new classification system, which would be part of the application to our own department as well as others. In the meantime, there is that disparity, and I think that has been the area of negotiation.

I can’t get into details. That’s between management and the union representing them. As ministers, we don’t get ourselves involved in that kind of administration. But I am very sympathetic. I have raised the issue in cabinet. I have raised the issue with my colleagues, and I think there is a genuine will to find a solution, because we all recognize, as you do, that this is a very valuable service that we provide and we need awfully good people. I think we have to respond to it.

Mme Francine Lalonde: On va voir si vous avez une influence sur le Cabinet.

Mr. Lloyd Axworthy: I guess. I suppose. Mr. Svend Robinson (Burnaby- Douglas, NDP): I have just one factual question before I put my four questions to the minister. The minister said that the matter of the PAFSO negotiations had gone to a conciliation board. I certainly agree with the minister that it’s important that there be respect and dignity for the employees. The levels of morale are terrible, and attrition is very high-probably the highest ever. These are dedicated people who have not been treated with the kind of respect and dignity they deserve, both overseas and here. Could the minister clarify whether it has actually gone to a conciliation board?

Mr. Lloyd Axworthy: It’s on its way. I think they’ve agreed to go-

Mr. Svend Robinson: The president of PAFSO is here, and as of an hour ago he wasn’t aware of that, so I’m pleased that the minister-

Mr. Lloyd Axworthy: I’ll let Ms. McCallion answer. She has the details on that.

Mr. Svend Robinson: You’ve agreed that it will go to conciliation, have you?

Ms. Kathryn McCallion: That was my understanding, but the President of PAFSO is waiting for the invitation from Treasury Board.

Mr. Svend Robinson: That’s correct. I’m pleased the minister is going to be doing that.

Ms. Jean Augustine (Etobicoke-Lakeshore, Lib.): I also wanted to speak quite strongly about the resolution of the foreign service officers question, because having just come back from Central Asia, the officers who we met there were so dedicated, were so highly trained, experienced and skilled, that we were very proud to have them organize for us and to make our stay there, and to have the ground set for us. So we recognize the work they are doing, and I’m very pleased to hear you say that we are heading toward conciliation and that the problem will be resolved.

Mr. Lloyd Axworthy: First off, Mr. Chairman, let me say that I am pleased that members of this committee are expressing themselves on the circumstance of foreign service officers. I think that’s very helpful and conducive to have those expressions from the committee, and I certainly welcome them.

Mr. Gurmant Grewal (Surrey Centre, Canadian Alliance): Finally, the Professional Association of Foreign Service Officers’ contract with the Treasury Board remains unresolved, even though you gave the latest information: 84% of foreign service union members rejected the government’s latest offer; their pay is lousy, and their morale is low. When we go abroad and talk to the foreign service employees, we always hear those complaints. Where in the estimates is the concern for our foreign service officers recognized and a solution proposed?

The Chairman Mr. Bill Graham (Toronto Centre — Rosedale, Lib.): I want to say, Minister, on that, we too received representations when we were travelling, and I would say that those of us who were in the Caucasus and in Turkey would certainly subscribe to Ms. Augustine’s comments, and your own and Svend Robinson’s comments, about the quality of our foreign service officers.

Mr. Lloyd Axworthy: Mr. Chairman, as I think Ms. McCallion said, we will, as soon as we get back, clarify exactly where the invitation for the conciliation has gone, because if it’s going to conciliation I think that is the proper route to take.

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Originally published in / Publié à l’origine dans bout de papier, Vol. 17, No. 2 (2000) — Summer 2000 // Été 2000, pp. 5–7. Read the rest of this issue / Lire le reste de ce numéro →